This is a rush transcript from “On the Record ,” November 16, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Dr. Baden joins us here in Bolingbrook, Illinois. Dr. Baden, your day started today speaking to the family of Kathleen Savio?
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes. Yes, speaking to Kathleen’s father, who was next to me, and the rest of the family and going over what their concerns were and what they wanted to learn from the autopsy and how I was going to proceed.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did you hear from them? What did you learn from them before you did the autopsy?
BADEN: Well, what I had learned was that the family had certain concerns because the way that Kathleen was in the bathtub and that she hadn’t been heard from for some 36 hours before she — before the body was discovered, that her habit was to take off her jewelry and put her in her up before she took a bath, which wasn’t done that time. So they had certain concerns that there were suspicious things in that bathtub.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, after meeting with the family — how long did that meeting take?
BADEN: About an hour, a little over an hour.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Then where did you go?
BADEN: Went — we met in the coroner’s office. The corner was very helpful, this O’Neil. We gave us all his facilities. We went from there, drove over to the morgue where the autopsy was done. And everybody was very helpful.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, this — there was an autopsy done when she died in March 2004.
BADEN: In 2004.
VAN SUSTEREN: Then there was one done yesterday, right?
BADEN: The day before, yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And so then yours — your autopsy today was the third.
BADEN: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: How many people were in the room today?
BADEN: There were five Illinois State Troopers who came down. One of them took photographs, took notes. We exchanged some information. There was a coroner, an administrative coroner, who was there, very helpful. We went over the X-rays. There was Steph Watts from your office who was there, who was very helpful.
VAN SUSTEREN: He’s the one who videotaped you…
(CROSSTALK)
BADEN: He did the videotape, and he was very helpful in taking notes and helping out. And it was a big, very nice autopsy room. They do about 500 autopsies a year in that room, so it’s not a small operation. And when the autopsy was done two days ago, about 13 X-rays were taken, which I was able to review. They have an X-ray view box. They had the X-rays. No fractures. And when I did the examination, there were no fractures on the body.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And so the viewers know that, Steph Watts, when he videotaped you, we were very careful not to videotape the remains and being…
BADEN: That’s right.
VAN SUSTEREN: … respectful of the seriousness of the situation…
BADEN: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: … and for the family and the dignity of Kathleen Savio. Now, just as background, how many autopsies have you done?
BADEN: I’ve done, over the past 45 years, over 20,000 autopsies.
VAN SUSTEREN: And how many post-exhumation? Because that’s a little different type of autopsy.
BADEN: Much different. Over 200 exhumation autopsies. And exhumations are always done because some information arises that was not known at the time of the first autopsy, and the exhumations can be a year later, three years later, even 30 years later, when additional information comes up not know initially.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, we’re going to get to your conclusion in a second, but I first want to know is, were there any particular challenges presented to you today in doing that autopsy?
BADEN: Well, there’s always a challenge in doing an exhumation autopsy because there always is some deterioration of the body. But the advantage is we have more information when we’re doing the exhumation than was known at the time of the first autopsy, so it’s a more focused autopsy. That is, there was various information that was gathered that led to the exhumation in the first place that wasn’t known initially.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, the condition of the body, I understand, wasn’t an ideal situation because the casket hadn’t been sealed.
BADEN: Well, the casket may have been sealed, but a lot of water got in. It wasn’t effectively sealed. A lot of water had gotten in and there was a lot of deterioration of soft tissues.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did that inhibit you from reaching a conclusion — which we’ll get to in a second, but the soft tissue damage from the water, would that — did that inhibit you from reaching a conclusion?
BADEN: No, because there was enough information there, together with all the other information that’s been available from the other two autopsies, that permits me to arrive at a conclusion as to cause and manner of death.
VAN SUSTEREN: One of the things that we read about in the autopsy report that was done back in 2004 is that there was a lot of blood in Kathleen Savio’s hair. Was that a determination you were able to make today, whether or not that — or had she been — you know, did the funeral home clean that up or — could you make that determination?
BADEN: Any blood in the hair was already cleaned up by the funeral home. At the time of the first autopsy and when the exhumation was done, there was no more blood in the hair.
VAN SUSTEREN: What conclusion did you reach as to the manner of death after doing the autopsy today?
BADEN: That was a homicide.
VAN SUSTEREN: Any doubt in your mind whatsoever that it’s a homicid?
BADEN: To a reasonable degree of medical certainty is the standard we usually use. It’s my opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that it’s a homicide, and that’s what I would have put down on the death certificate.
VAN SUSTEREN: Had you been the initial medical examiner doing the autopsy in…
BADEN: Even initially, there was enough information that it was a homicide because of the fact that she was an adult, healthy, hadn’t been drinking or anything, found dead in a bathtub. It does not happen accidentally. No history of seizures or illness. And in addition, there were indications then of multiple blunt force traumas, of being beaten up. And one of the things we were able to look at today is those bruises were still there, and we could see with the naked eye that they were fresh….